Episode 41

How Does Your Posture Affect Your Confidence?: Interview with Aesha Tahir

In this week's episode of Ongoing Mastery: Presenting & Speaking, Kirsten talks with posture and movement specialist Aesha Tahir about the importance of eye and hip position when working and how posture creates trust. Find out which journal system both Kirsten and Aesha use!

Our favorite moments::

  • <01:10> Why you should have your screen and camera at eye level
  • <02:44> The best position for your monitor
  • <05:32> Divide your working time between standing and sitting
  • <07:48> Tips for sitting
  • <10:43> Tips for boosting confidence while in an upright posture
  • <13:31> Posture is important for establishing trust

If you enjoyed this conversation about posture and public speaking, check out Season 1, Episode 8: How Can Online Speakers Use Posture & Gestures Effectively? Link is in the shownotes.

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Transcript
Kirsten:

This week I talk with posture and movement specialist Aesha Tahir, about the

Kirsten:

importance of eye and hip position when working and how posture creates trust.

Kirsten:

Let's jump into it.

Kirsten:

Hello everyone.

Kirsten:

Welcome to Ongoing Mastery" Presenting & Speaking the podcast,

Kirsten:

and of course the interview.

Kirsten:

And today we have Aesha Tahir.

Kirsten:

Aesha, welcome to the show.

Kirsten:

Thank you for coming on today.

Kirsten:

Thanks for, thanks for having me.

Kirsten:

Kirsten, please tell everybody what it is that you do.

Aesha:

Thanks for having me, Kirsten.

Aesha:

I am a human movement specialist and what I do is I help deskbound

Aesha:

professionals and deskbound teams to live a healthier life and move pain free.

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

I am so excited for this because you're gonna be actually talking about

Kirsten:

a few things that are my absolute pet peeves about online presenting.

Kirsten:

So I'm gonna start with the first question, which is

Kirsten:

actually a lot of people don't.

Kirsten:

A lot of people when they're doing online presenting, especially they

Kirsten:

don't think in terms of making eye contact, so why is having your monitor

Kirsten:

at an eye level and especially your camera at an eye level, why is that

Kirsten:

important when you're presenting?

Aesha:

Yeah, such a great question and I get this a lot because what's happening

Aesha:

is when we are working in a hunched over posture, Our eyes are normally

Aesha:

looking down either on the keyboard or on the screen, but our eyes are the most

Aesha:

important postural system receptors.

Aesha:

So eyes are our organs that help us orient our body in our environment.

Aesha:

And a lot of what the way you appear to others and how people perceive

Aesha:

you is because of your body language.

Aesha:

Now, , let's put the two pieces together.

Aesha:

So your eyes are the postural system receptors and they organ your body.

Aesha:

Now, if you're looking down, where's your body gonna go down?

Aesha:

Right?

Aesha:

So what's gonna happen is you're gonna round your shoulders, your

Aesha:

chin is gonna drop down, and you're not gonna look confident.

Aesha:

, and that's not the message that we want to communicate to people around

Aesha:

us, especially when it comes to high stakes situations like presentations,

Aesha:

speaking, maybe a job interview.

Aesha:

So that's why it's very important to be mindful of where you're

Aesha:

placing your monitor screen.

Aesha:

So what is the best way to place your monitor screen is to have your monitor

Aesha:

in front of you, and it should be around a arm length away from your body.

Aesha:

and it should be right in line with your eyesight or just an inch or two higher.

Aesha:

Just an inch or two higher is better because otherwise we have this tendency

Aesha:

to look down often if we place it a little lower, so it should always be in line.

Aesha:

And since we are spending so much time in front of screens nowadays,

Aesha:

like maybe 10 to 12 hours on average, now that you practice.

Aesha:

Better eye positioning.

Aesha:

It's gonna translate into those high stake situations, and your posture

Aesha:

is gonna be upright naturally.

Aesha:

Another way, the eye where your eyes are placed or where your eyes are during the

Aesha:

day affects your posture is it's called.

Aesha:

Pelvo-ocular reflex.

Aesha:

So I know it's a scientific term and I'm gonna break it down for you.

Aesha:

So pelvo-ocular means pelvis for hips and ocular means eyes.

Aesha:

So there is an eye and hip connection too.

Aesha:

And hips are our powerhouse when it comes to posture and, and the way we

Aesha:

place our bodies and our body language.

Aesha:

So when you look down your hips, move forward.

Aesha:

It's just, again, it's that mind body connection that naturally

Aesha:

exists within our bodies.

Aesha:

So when you look down our bodies now, brain is perceiving that

Aesha:

you are gonna move forward.

Aesha:

So in order for us to get ready for that movement, your brain

Aesha:

is gonna push your hips forward.

Aesha:

Now, when you push your hips forward, again, you're gonna be

Aesha:

hunched over and have that defeated position that you don't wanna have.

Aesha:

When you are in a high stake situation or just in general too, because it

Aesha:

has a lot of, it leads to a lot of musculoskeletal issues down the road.

Aesha:

What do you think about standing desks?

Aesha:

Standing desks are my go-to . That's the first tip I give to my

Aesha:

clients, that if you can invest in a standing desk, go for it.

Aesha:

The only reason I would tell someone to shy away from a standing desk

Aesha:

is if they have planter fasciitis.

Aesha:

even then there are solutions around that.

Aesha:

But so dividing your working time, half of the time you should be standing and then

Aesha:

half of the time you should spend sitting.

Aesha:

Okay.

Aesha:

And then we are gonna debunk the sitting a little more, but let's

Aesha:

take a look at the standing.

Aesha:

An easy way to convert your existing desk into a standing desk is to

Aesha:

buy a sit to stand converter.

Aesha:

, there are plenty of them out there on Amazon.

Aesha:

Just search for sit to stand converter.

Aesha:

Mm-hmm.

Aesha:

, they're around, uh, you know, they're very economical.

Aesha:

Just buy those and try it out.

Aesha:

So they would change your existing sitting desk into a

Aesha:

standing desk every 30 minutes.

Aesha:

You should change your body position.

Aesha:

Okay.

Aesha:

Which means if you're standing, have a seat.

Aesha:

And if you're sitting.

Aesha:

Stand up.

Aesha:

Another way to have a good eye positioning while you're working on the computer

Aesha:

is to invest in, if you're working on a laptop, to invest in a laptop stand.

Aesha:

Again, a very economical, reasonable piece of equipment that you can buy on Amazon.

Aesha:

It's called Laptop Stand, and what it does is it elevates your computer screen.

Aesha:

your laptop screen.

Aesha:

And they're very tiny too.

Aesha:

So they're foldable tiny.

Aesha:

I take them to my coffee shop and I'm writing.

Aesha:

So yeah, they're very easy, portable, and they're a good investment.

Aesha:

Now let's talk about sitting.

Aesha:

Mm-hmm.

Aesha:

, all sitting positions are not created equal.

Aesha:

So, yeah, sitting in a chair is where we start getting into that,

Aesha:

uh, hunched over posture, which translates mostly to low confidence,

Aesha:

low self-esteem, and poor communication too, because 93% of the communication

Aesha:

takes place through body language.

Aesha:

Mm-hmm.

Aesha:

. Okay.

Aesha:

So here are a few tips for people who do like to sit, or

Aesha:

that's the only option they have.

Aesha:

One of it is that sit on the chair, but sit in a cross-legged position.

Aesha:

Instead of placing your feet down on the floor, cross your legs on the seat

Aesha:

and sit in a cross-legged position.

Aesha:

Why?

Aesha:

Because what it ha what happens is in order to sit in a cross-legged position

Aesha:

on the chair, , for those of you who are just listening to this podcast, I have my

Aesha:

arm running parallel to the ground here.

Aesha:

What happens is your hips go all the way back to the back, rest of the chair.

Aesha:

Mm-hmm.

Aesha:

, which wouldn't happen when you had your feet down.

Aesha:

Right.

Aesha:

, and that's part of the reason why we have so much incidence of lower

Aesha:

back pain because we are always like hunting forward, our hips are not

Aesha:

attached to the back of the chair.

Aesha:

So now when you're sitting cross-legged, you have your hips attached, your upper

Aesha:

back will be attached to the chair because that's the only way to have a

Aesha:

good, comfortable cross-legged position.

Aesha:

Second, now your knees.

Aesha:

and ankles and hips are going through full flexion, or they're bending

Aesha:

with the full range of motion.

Aesha:

Now, that's what our body likes.

Aesha:

When you're sitting in a chair with your legs down and you know your

Aesha:

thighs running parallel to the ground.

Aesha:

Mostly what's happening is our knees are bent 90 degrees.

Aesha:

They're not bent.

Aesha:

In the full range of motion.

Aesha:

Neither are our ankles, neither are our hips.

Aesha:

So that half range of motion creates this muscle imbalance.

Aesha:

That's really hard to correct.

Aesha:

However, if you're sitting with a full range of motion, now you're also

Aesha:

asking all of your muscles to go in and out of that range of motion, right?

Aesha:

Full, right?

Aesha:

You're turning them 180 degrees and now you're opening that joint.

Aesha:

So those are a few perks.

Aesha:

And what happens is now you'll have an upright posture just cause you're

Aesha:

sitting in a post-second position.

Aesha:

And also you're not gonna have that grounded shoulders, which we don't

Aesha:

want to have when we are communicating.

Aesha:

And that's gonna translate to your speaking ability, that's

Aesha:

gonna translate to the way you show up in your leadership roles.

Aesha:

Posture and leadership has a strong connection.

Kirsten:

Okay, fantastic.

Kirsten:

So, , when you have an upright posture, there are things that you

Kirsten:

can do to help with your confidence.

Kirsten:

What are those things that you recommend?

Kirsten:

What are your tips?

Kirsten:

Yeah,

Aesha:

so my first go-to tip is to have an expansive posture.

Aesha:

Mm-hmm.

Aesha:

, because when you're typing.

Aesha:

and you're sitting on the computer, you are mostly what what's happening

Aesha:

is we have this tendency to just ground our shoulders, lift our

Aesha:

shoulders up if we are really stressed out towards our ears, right?

Aesha:

So we want to counteract that.

Aesha:

How can you counteract it by having an open chest, an expansive chest?

Aesha:

And for that, it's easy for two minutes.

Aesha:

Hold a power pose as Dr.

Aesha:

Amy Cuddy.

Aesha:

So, Lift your arms up maybe towards the ceiling, or press your arms

Aesha:

back towards the back rest or the back wall and open your shoulders

Aesha:

and hold that for two minutes while you're breathing slow and deep.

Aesha:

So now you're gonna oxygenate your brain.

Aesha:

And you're gonna drop your cortisol levels down.

Aesha:

Because what happens is when we are hunched over, the reason our confidence

Aesha:

drops down is because our cortisol levels go high and our testosterone,

Aesha:

which is our confidence hormone and um, power hormone, that drops slow.

Aesha:

So when you hold a power pose for two minutes, now you're undoing the effect

Aesha:

of having a hunch posture, which is.

Aesha:

, your confidence hormones are gonna go higher.

Aesha:

Your cortisol and stress hormones are gonna go lower.

Aesha:

So that's my go-to tip.

Aesha:

But other than that, every 30 to 50 minutes get up,

Aesha:

move and do some stretches.

Aesha:

There are some stretches that I recommend, and for that they are in my book, but

Aesha:

mostly it's like just, you know, opening your arms up and dropping them down.

Aesha:

That's a really good stretch.

Aesha:

Uh, one of the stretches is snow Angels on the wall.

Aesha:

Just drawing snow angels with your arms on the wall, standing against

Aesha:

the wall, and all it takes is two to three minutes for those physiologic

Aesha:

changes to occur in your body.

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

Well, since you mentioned, I'm bring it up now, can you tell people about the

Kirsten:

title of your book and when you wrote it?

Aesha:

My, my book is Unhunched and the subtitle is Discovering

Aesha:

Wellness Through Posture.

Aesha:

It is, I wrote it this year.

Aesha:

It's coming out in May, first week of May.

Kirsten:

Oh, congratulations.

Kirsten:

That's awesome.

Kirsten:

So last, uh, well, two more questions.

Kirsten:

So, why is your posture important for establishing trust, especially when you're

Kirsten:

doing presenting and public speaking?

Kirsten:

Yeah,

Aesha:

so this is something that I talk about.

Aesha:

Your posture is related to your self-esteem and your self-worth,

Aesha:

and the way you present yourself in front of others.

Aesha:

and how they perceive your self, self-esteem is how you build trust.

Aesha:

So at University of Southern California, some exercise scientists got together and

Aesha:

they wanted to look at how posture affects the student's self-esteem and self-worth.

Aesha:

Mm-hmm.

Aesha:

. So they conducted a couple of studies and one of the studies was that

Aesha:

they gave, um, the students job applications and they asked them,

Aesha:

They divided the group into half.

Aesha:

Half of the students were to fill out the job applications and they

Aesha:

hunched over posture and the other half were supposed to be upright and

Aesha:

ship, fill out the job applications.

Aesha:

Okay.

Aesha:

They filled it out, then they surveyed them that, oh, so

Aesha:

how do you feel about it?

Aesha:

And you know, what do you think if you get that job or not?

Aesha:

So the students who were sitting in the hunch over posture, they

Aesha:

weren't confident about the skills they wrote on the job application.

Aesha:

Okay.

Aesha:

However, the other group who was upright, they were very confident

Aesha:

about the skills that they wrote for on the job application.

Aesha:

So they were, they just had a higher self worth because of

Aesha:

having an un hunched posture.

Aesha:

And they found out that the, the students who had upright posture, they

Aesha:

had a higher rate of getting hired.

Aesha:

By that company

Kirsten:

too.

Kirsten:

Well that makes sense because if they're filling out a more confident application.

Kirsten:

Yeah.

Kirsten:

Okay.

Kirsten:

That makes sense.

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

Yeah.

Aesha:

So yeah.

Aesha:

And then another study was conducted by Dr.

Aesha:

Petty's team and they found out that if the students were asked to, uh, write down

Aesha:

three positive or negative personality traits, . So students in the hunched over

Aesha:

posture were writing more negative traits than the positive traits about themselves.

Kirsten:

Okay.

Kirsten:

I can definitely see that.

Kirsten:

All right, fantastic.

Kirsten:

So you've got a lot of information that you can share with people.

Kirsten:

Where do people find

Aesha:

you?

Aesha:

Yeah, so I'm very active on LinkedIn and my handle is Aesha Tahir, just

Aesha:

like my full name, and they can connect with me and find me there.

Aesha:

All right,

Kirsten:

fantastic.

Kirsten:

And your book comes out in May, you said?

Aesha:

Yes, it does.

Aesha:

It does.

Aesha:

Okay.

Aesha:

I am really excited.

Aesha:

It's coming out in a couple of months.

Kirsten:

All right.

Kirsten:

And then last question, so, and I asked you this before we started

Kirsten:

because it's always hard to think about things, but if you were gonna

Kirsten:

give listeners one piece of advice on developing ongoing mastery that's

Kirsten:

related to your skillset, what would you

Aesha:

advise people?

Aesha:

So my advice would be don't underestimate the power of small steps.

Aesha:

Of small habits.

Aesha:

Okay?

Aesha:

If, if you can, as my favorite author, James Clear puts it, if you can improve

Aesha:

1% every day, imagine how much you would improve over the year, right?

Aesha:

So it's the same concept.

Aesha:

Can you move for two minutes?

Aesha:

Today and maybe add on another two minutes tomorrow, do two minutes of

Aesha:

stretches today and add on another two minute tomorrow instead of saying,

Aesha:

okay, now I'm gonna do this whole stretcher thing for an hour, and

Aesha:

then not be able to accomplish that.

Aesha:

Mm-hmm.

Aesha:

Or pull a muscle?

Aesha:

I, yes, exactly.

Aesha:

and I believe, I believe that small changes lead to big results like

Aesha:

investing in a sit to stand converter.

Aesha:

So that would be my go-to when it comes to the advice.

Aesha:

And

Kirsten:

I love that because I, James Clear has these books that

Kirsten:

he sells, that are journals that are the Clear Journal and they are

Kirsten:

different ways of tracking your life.

Kirsten:

And I buy them in bulk.

Kirsten:

I basically live in my clear journal, so that's why I'm laughing.

Kirsten:

I'm kind of going, yes, yes, I completely get that.

Kirsten:

I love those things.

Kirsten:

I have it too, which just wonderful.

Kirsten:

I have it too.

Kirsten:

So fantastic.

Kirsten:

So I'm so thrilled that your book is coming out in May and that you've got

Kirsten:

this work to share with people and that people can find you on LinkedIn.

Kirsten:

Thank you so much for your time coming on today.

Kirsten:

I really, really appreciate it.

Kirsten:

Thanks

Aesha:

for having me.

Aesha:

It was a

Kirsten:

pleasure.

Kirsten:

Excellent.

Kirsten:

And for everybody else, we will see you on all the socials and

Kirsten:

we'll check with you next week.

Kirsten:

Have a great one.

Kirsten:

Bye.

Kirsten:

If you enjoy this conversation about posture and public speaking,

Kirsten:

check out Season One, Episode number Eight: How Can Online Speakers Use

Kirsten:

Posture and Gestures Effectively?

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