Episode 16

Interview: Vanessa Zamy, the Business Defibrillator

In this week's episode of Ongoing Mastery: Presenting & Speaking, Kirsten talks with Vanessa Zamy, the Business Defibrillator, about growing your business while avoiding burn out. Vanessa shares her perspective on why making decisions from a place of fear is so harmful for business. You’ll also learn what Vanessa would tell the just-starting-out version of herself, as well as her walk-out music choice.

Key take-aways:

  • Business ownership is a marathon; stick with what works 
  • Employees stay with teams when they feel like they matter and are part of something biggest
  • Recognize the people around you who support you and cheer you on

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Transcript
Kirsten:

Hello everybody, and welcome to Ongoing Mastery: Presenting & Speaking.

Kirsten:

This week we are talking with the one and only Vanessa Zamy, known

Kirsten:

as the Business Defibrillator.

Kirsten:

She's a global business consultant, a dynamic speaker, bestselling author,

Kirsten:

and professor dedicated to sharing her proof and framework to help businesses

Kirsten:

increase their income and impact without burn up, burn out, sorry, not burn up.

Kirsten:

She has been everywhere.

Kirsten:

She's been featured in Fast Company, NPR Marketplace.

Kirsten:

She has an engineering degree from Stanford, and her background includes

Kirsten:

management science and strategic leadership at Fortune 500 companies.

Kirsten:

So, quite a bio there, Vanessa.

Kirsten:

Well done, bravo.

Vanessa:

Well thanks, thanks.

Kirsten:

Well done.

Kirsten:

Ok, so, welcome.

Kirsten:

Obviously, you and I know each other through the speaking-verse and

Vanessa:

Yes

Kirsten:

I wanted to have you come on because Business Defibrillator is a pretty

Kirsten:

awesome, just description and title.

Kirsten:

And also I want to know from, obviously ongoing mastery,

Vanessa:

mm-hmm

Kirsten:

what does ongoing mastery show up like in your life?

Kirsten:

How are you take, what, what are you, what gifts are you enhancing?

Kirsten:

What are you focusing on?

Vanessa:

Yeah, so when I hear "ongoing mastery," right, the way that I

Vanessa:

think about it and the way that you, you spread the message, right,

Vanessa:

it's all about continuing to learn.

Vanessa:

And so as, well, as people, as humans, but especially as business owners,

Vanessa:

it's ensuring that, for me at least, I'm always continuing to learn,

Vanessa:

continuing to just grow in some area.

Vanessa:

So each year, generally speaking, there's always, like, a topic

Vanessa:

that I focus on and it's not necessarily a New Year's resolution.

Vanessa:

Usually my topics will start, like, the middle of the, of one year and

Vanessa:

then carry on to the next year.

Vanessa:

It's a whole situation.

Vanessa:

It's a whole six, six month cycle or so,

Kirsten:

Yep

Vanessa:

where I'm always switching up topics.

Vanessa:

The topic now, the, at the time that we're recording this, ongoing mastery

Vanessa:

topic of today is ultimately on sort of abundance and growth mindset.

Vanessa:

And so working on combining, like, the last, the last "season," quote unquote

Vanessa:

of this for me was on feminine energy.

Vanessa:

And sort of combining that with my masculine energy and which, the

Vanessa:

masculine energy helped me to achieve all that stuff in my bio, but now I'm

Vanessa:

getting more into feminine energy to help balance that out and so I can

Vanessa:

show up even better for my clients and for myself as well, for my future.

Vanessa:

And now, working on this whole abundance growth mindset at

Vanessa:

a different level, right.

Vanessa:

Like, there was, like, the past two years or so, it's been like

Vanessa:

cash flow management and it's been, like, money mindset, all stuff.

Vanessa:

But now, it's sort of this next level of abundance and what that is.

Vanessa:

That's my ongoing mastery right now.

Kirsten:

I love it.

Kirsten:

That's awesome.

Kirsten:

So, then, I'm going to actually start with, so how do you

Kirsten:

grow biz without burnout?

Kirsten:

Given all of that, how do you keep from burning out?

Vanessa:

Yes.

Vanessa:

So the way that, and part of this is, for me, like, before I even started

Vanessa:

a business, I was already doing a whole bunch of stuff in life, so, and

Kirsten:

I'm shocked.

Vanessa:

so I was able to

Kirsten:

This is my shocked face, yeah.

Vanessa:

So, I was able to do, though, a lot of things beforehand, which

Vanessa:

allowed me to really understand what does productivity really look like for

Vanessa:

me, and how do I love to, you know, show up in a way that, I'm put on quotes,

Vanessa:

"time management," for those who are listening, you may not see me, but I'm

Vanessa:

putting in quotes, "time management," because it's a whole other discussion

Vanessa:

about time management not existing.

Vanessa:

But, with that being said, I transfer that into my business ownership and

Vanessa:

with my clients by really, it's the key idea, like, there's the whole 13

Vanessa:

step framework I have on this, but the key idea is to stick with what works.

Vanessa:

And so I work with a lot of brick and mortar business owners who are in their

Kirsten:

Mmmmmm

Vanessa:

second decade of business, and helping them to see, like,

Vanessa:

helping them to see what works and what doesn't work and ensuring that

Vanessa:

they're sticking with what works.

Vanessa:

And we're helping to revitalize and revamp what doesn't work when it comes

Vanessa:

to their finances, their marketing, their operations, all different areas.

Vanessa:

A lot of times, you know, business owners and entrepreneurs especially,

Vanessa:

because it is a marathon,

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

it's like, "Oh, I'm not, you know, I don't have that house in Tahiti

Vanessa:

yet," or "I don't have that," you know,

Kirsten:

Yep

Vanessa:

"I'm not on vacation every year like

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

I wanted to with my grandkids.

Vanessa:

Oh look, my grandkid is born.

Vanessa:

I have a third one, and I'm still not even able to spend

Vanessa:

that much time with them," right.

Vanessa:

And so all this panic starts setting in when they're looking

Vanessa:

at what is not happening.

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

And then what happens with that panic?

Vanessa:

They start making decisions that just starts switching things up, right?

Vanessa:

And

Kirsten:

I, I, I don't resemble that at all.

Kirsten:

No, I have no idea what you're talking about .

Vanessa:

And, you know, but the thing is that it happens a lot of times, right.

Vanessa:

And it's this whole idea of that "Everything is missing," and so then

Vanessa:

they start, like, switching it up.

Vanessa:

And really the key idea is to stick with what works, right.

Vanessa:

And so how to grow a business without burnout is, we're looking at, if you're

Vanessa:

in that sort of, say 10 plus year in business, you've been in business for

Vanessa:

10 plus years, is looking at what works.

Vanessa:

But even if you've been in business for, like, six months or, like, two weeks,

Kirsten:

mm-hmm

Vanessa:

it's still the same concept of sticking with what works, right.

Vanessa:

And there's all this layers around, you know, how do you figure out

Vanessa:

what works, all that sort of jazz.

Vanessa:

But that's ultimately what the business comes down to is sticking

Vanessa:

with what works and preventing yourself from going, and that's the

Vanessa:

mindset part of it, right, preventing yourself from going into that panic.

Vanessa:

Preventing yourself from going into that, you know, making decisions

Vanessa:

based off of worry instead of making decisions based off of patience.

Kirsten:

Yeah, I, I have told my husband multiple times that I

Kirsten:

am now not, but up to this year, I was a guilt based life form.

Kirsten:

I was not carbon based.

Vanessa:

Mmm

Kirsten:

I was guilt based.

Kirsten:

But this year, becoming an entrepreneur, I had to give that up because you can't

Kirsten:

survive if you drive off of guilt.

Vanessa:

Yeah, that is true.

Kirsten:

And I didn't realize the degree to which you have to really own your

Kirsten:

passion and live, like, live your mission.

Vanessa:

Yeah

Kirsten:

and otherwise you just, it's not going to work.

Vanessa:

Yeah

Kirsten:

So, you work with brick and mortar businesses.

Kirsten:

How do you help them manage during potential, you know, during

Kirsten:

recessions and potential recessions?

Vanessa:

What a great question .

Kirsten:

I wonder where I got that question from.

Kirsten:

From you!

Vanessa:

Kirsten:

Yes, it was an excellent question.

Vanessa:

What a great question, especially given these times.

Vanessa:

So, but ultimately it is, like, for my clients, really the first, like, the first

Vanessa:

like step, and for anyone who's, I also want to make this general thing too, for

Vanessa:

people who are listening as well, right?

Vanessa:

But if you're, you know, sitting there with your store and your shop

Vanessa:

and your salon and you're just like, "Oh my God, there's a recession,

Vanessa:

inflation, and all this other stuff is happening and what am I to do?"

Vanessa:

And first step is what we just talked about, stick with what works.

Vanessa:

And then the second step is something that you can do to take advantage,

Vanessa:

great advantage, of this time is to declutter your costs, right.

Vanessa:

Because sometimes, you know, there are some costs that creep up in those,

Vanessa:

now, no, no one's perfect, right.

Vanessa:

Like, sometimes you might get a day or two where you just are like, "Oh

Vanessa:

my God, let me make this terrible decision right now out of worry," right.

Vanessa:

And so then a cost

Kirsten:

Yep

Vanessa:

comes up that shouldn't be there.

Vanessa:

And so spend the time, at least right now, to really declutter your costs,

Vanessa:

so that you're setting up that part of your business up for success.

Vanessa:

So that if the income does reduce for some reason, right, the income does

Vanessa:

reduce, you at least have that cushion.

Vanessa:

Now, in terms of the income side, what I'm helping my clients do is really look

Vanessa:

at how can we take advantage of the work that they've done, like, for my clients,

Vanessa:

some of my clients, you know, home decor business, another one is a, a bar

Vanessa:

out in California, and like all those.

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

But ultimately it's, you know, helping them to see what

Vanessa:

are those income opportunities?

Vanessa:

Because even though yes, it is a recession or it is inflation or whatever it

Vanessa:

is, there's still income opportunity.

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

Right?

Vanessa:

There's still, there's always income opportunity, right.

Vanessa:

And understanding that as a business owner to say, "Yes, there is a recession

Vanessa:

and yes, I can still make money," right.

Kirsten:

Yep

Vanessa:

"My business can still make money, and so all hope is not lost."

Vanessa:

So, looking at ensuring that we are still focusing on growing that money

Vanessa:

and getting that money for my clients.

Vanessa:

At the same time, decluttering the costs, so that we have that sort of a

Vanessa:

hedging the risk plan as well too, so,

Kirsten:

Mm

Vanessa:

Yeah

Kirsten:

Yeah, managing risk.

Kirsten:

Excellent, excellent.

Kirsten:

So, for people who have a team, there's now this whole quiet quitting thing, which

Kirsten:

I don't think is actually quiet quitting.

Kirsten:

I think it's more that people are not feeling like they belong and

Kirsten:

they're not empowered to fully participate, but that's, that's my take.

Kirsten:

How do you lead a team during this time, especially with this sort of

Kirsten:

disconnect that people are feeling?

Vanessa:

Yeah, and so, like, let's talk about the quiet

Vanessa:

quitting definition, right?

Vanessa:

So, I completely agree with your definition, right.

Vanessa:

Ultimately, what it comes down to is the quiet quitting is, and

Vanessa:

there are two camps of it, right.

Vanessa:

There's one camp where they've already burned out and they realize this, but

Vanessa:

they don't want to quit their job.

Vanessa:

And now they're like, "Okay, how can I just essentially manage myself and

Vanessa:

manage, you know, my, my work ethic without putting too much effort in?"

Vanessa:

And then you had the, the group of people who are smart and

Vanessa:

realize that, "You know what?

Vanessa:

This, you know, I could put in all these hours, and all this time, and

Vanessa:

all this energy towards this business or towards this leader and still not

Vanessa:

get to where I want to be," right.

Vanessa:

Or maybe they realize that because they did that prior, their prior

Vanessa:

job, or maybe they just realized that talking to other employees.

Vanessa:

But ultimately it's, quiet quitting comes from that team member, that

Vanessa:

employee saying to themselves, "Why even bother?," right.

Vanessa:

"Why, why even bother?," right.

Vanessa:

And so my, you know, to answer your question in terms of how can leaders

Vanessa:

really be most effective in leading a team amidst this quiet quitting trend

Vanessa:

is really looking at helping people to answer why should they bother?, right.

Vanessa:

And that comes into a culture play and ensuring that that leader even,

Vanessa:

or that business owner, depending on how many people you have on

Vanessa:

your team, usually my clients have between three to 10 people, right.

Vanessa:

So, like, they are still like the leader and the, the boss of everyone, right.

Vanessa:

But ultimately, it's looking at how can we establish this culture within the

Vanessa:

company, whether it's a store, a salon, or shop, right, but there's some purpose.

Vanessa:

There's some driving mission.

Vanessa:

There's some something, right, that everyone can center around within

Vanessa:

your business and encouraging your employees to center around that, one.

Vanessa:

And then two, ensuring that you are providing that space for them

Vanessa:

to feel heard, if they want to be heard, if they're that type of

Vanessa:

employee, for them to feel seen, right, as well too, as an employee.

Vanessa:

And all that comes together as well when it comes to really ensuring

Vanessa:

that you have that culture that is inclusive, a culture that is, you know,

Vanessa:

it doesn't have to be diverse, right.

Vanessa:

If you don't, that's totally fine.

Vanessa:

It's not necessary to be diverse, but at the very least, please include everyone

Vanessa:

who's on that team, at the very least.

Kirsten:

Yes

Vanessa:

That's it.

Vanessa:

At the very least, please include people.

Vanessa:

Everyone who's on your team, right, should be seen, should be heard, and

Vanessa:

should feel like they matter, right.

Vanessa:

One, they should feel like they matter, but also they should feel

Vanessa:

like they're part of something bigger.

Vanessa:

And that is what people ultimately want to do, right.

Vanessa:

They want to grow themselves and also feel like they're contributing more to

Vanessa:

the, to the world and the environment.

Vanessa:

And that is what you as a leader can help your employees see and do.

Kirsten:

Now, this is really fascinating because I was listening just yesterday

Kirsten:

to an audiobook of the Economics of Higher Purpose, and one of the

Kirsten:

points of the book is that they, one of the rules is the CEO has to hold

Kirsten:

the vision and keep recommitting to the vision and the mission.

Kirsten:

And then bring everybody along on that journey and say,

Kirsten:

"This is where we're headed.

Kirsten:

This is our goal.

Kirsten:

This is our drive."

Kirsten:

But that people with you have to embrace the mission too.

Kirsten:

And that purpose-driven businesses have less of the pitfalls

Vanessa:

Mmm-hmm

Kirsten:

than businesses that are more traditional, you know, "Well, employees

Kirsten:

need to be managed because otherwise they will not work and they will be lazy."

Kirsten:

And I, I, you know, I've been remote for most of my career and I know

Kirsten:

that a lot of the people working remotely end up working more and hard.

Kirsten:

So it's not, you know, I understand that there's a culture around it,

Kirsten:

but I, I think really it's, like, no, if you need to be micromanaging

Kirsten:

your entire team, that says something unhealthy about your business.

Vanessa:

But that also then gets into the first part of it

Vanessa:

which is the hiring part, right.

Vanessa:

And so even when, you know, I talk about this in my, my workshop, but

Vanessa:

it's sort of also the hiring part.

Vanessa:

Like, let's say, because it could even start even then where people are

Vanessa:

hiring people who aren't committed.

Vanessa:

And part of that is because, like, I see with my clients where they'll talk

Vanessa:

about this, like, terrible employee and we take a step back and say, "But

Vanessa:

how did that employee even come to be?"

Vanessa:

Chances are there was something in the interview that gave them a hint.

Vanessa:

But then they made a, they made a decision out of worry.

Vanessa:

They're like, "Well, there's no other candidate.

Vanessa:

I will not find anyone.

Vanessa:

Let me," right.

Vanessa:

It's like some people

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

do that in relationships too, right?

Vanessa:

But essentially it's like making that decision out of

Vanessa:

desperation and hiring that person who wasn't a fit to begin with.

Vanessa:

Their work ethic just wasn't a fit to begin with, right.

Vanessa:

And so in that sense, if that leader feels like they do need to micromanage,

Vanessa:

and one of my clients, I had to, this was about like a year ago, I called

Vanessa:

her out and it's like, "Sounds like you're micromanaging this employee,

Vanessa:

yet you also have confidence in them.

Vanessa:

There's something missing here," right.

Kirsten:

Yes

Vanessa:

And so, but yeah, but it's ultimately ensuring that when you

Vanessa:

do hire the right people, if you are hiring the right people, then also

Vanessa:

ensuring that they are committed to your mission and purpose at the same time.

Kirsten:

Mm-hmm

Vanessa:

Like, it all sort of connects and ties in, but if you don't even have

Vanessa:

the right employee, then doesn't matter how, what your mission or vision is, if

Vanessa:

they weren't right to begin with, right.

Vanessa:

And you can tell that during an interview.

Vanessa:

You can tell that during an interview.

Vanessa:

It's just a matter of you as an owner having the confidence to

Vanessa:

make that decision to say No so that you can make room for the Yes.

Vanessa:

It's get rid of the trash to make room for the treasure, yes.

Kirsten:

So, I, I love that.

Kirsten:

So, it sounds like one of the main things is that business owners really

Kirsten:

need to take a breath and just be willing to make a commitment, but

Kirsten:

not, you know, not be driven into it.

Kirsten:

Like, stop, think, now move.

Vanessa:

Yes, exactly.

Vanessa:

And sometimes though, what happens that a lot of people, they still stop and

Vanessa:

think, and they do move, but they do, the thinking is wrapped around worry, right.

Vanessa:

And so it's, like, there's productive thinking and

Vanessa:

there's unproductive thinking.

Kirsten:

Yes.

Vanessa:

And so it's ensuring that, you know, the thinking that you're

Vanessa:

doing is based off of a combination of logic and your intuition, right.

Vanessa:

And so ensuring that you are sticking with what works.

Vanessa:

And you are ensuring that you are making decisions out of patience and

Vanessa:

not out of worry, not out of a lack or a scarcity or a, you know, "It's

Vanessa:

only now," or "It's, oh my God, nah."

Vanessa:

It's like

Kirsten:

I'm hearing all of this .

Kirsten:

I'm just like, "Yes, I could see two instances where I did that."

Kirsten:

So, how do you, it seems like to me, somebody, I was a freelancer forever, but

Kirsten:

then I moved into entrepreneurship and I thought I knew what I was getting into.

Kirsten:

Boy, was I wrong.

Kirsten:

And now I realize I have to recommit to the vision on a daily basis

Kirsten:

and I have to kind of reorient and I didn't expect that work.

Kirsten:

Is that common?

Kirsten:

Do your clients, is that a normal behavior that people are kind of surprised

Kirsten:

at how often they need to recommit themselves to what they're doing?

Vanessa:

Well, no, it's not, it's not uncommon.

Vanessa:

It's very common actually.

Vanessa:

And so that's why I'm, in the business world, what we

Vanessa:

say is that it's 80% mindset.

Vanessa:

Only, it's only 20% strategy, and it's 80% mindset.

Vanessa:

And because that mindset is what will either start a strategy to be implemented,

Vanessa:

make sure that strategy is actually implemented correctly, and seeing that

Vanessa:

strategy through to the end, right.

Vanessa:

And it's all, sort of, the, the mindset piece of it and part of what you

Vanessa:

mentioned in terms of the recommitment and just the, it's kind of like a

Vanessa:

regrounding yourself, recentering yourself around what it is that you're

Vanessa:

doing and why it is that you're doing it.

Vanessa:

And that happens a lot.

Vanessa:

And the thing is that it doesn't necessarily go away, right.

Vanessa:

It doesn't go away in your entrepreneurship business journey, right.

Vanessa:

A lot of my clients, like you're, you've been a, an entrepreneur

Vanessa:

for, for how long, right?

Vanessa:

For a couple years.

Vanessa:

You know, I have my clients who've been, who've been in business, they've owned

Vanessa:

their business for 12, 15 years, right.

Kirsten:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

And so it's a, it doesn't end.

Vanessa:

It doesn't end.

Vanessa:

What happens is that you develop tools, right.

Vanessa:

You develop practices, and habits, and thoughts, and whatever it is

Vanessa:

you've got to do, and to ensure that, in those moments of recommitment, it

Vanessa:

doesn't stop you for a month, right.

Kirsten:

Yes

Vanessa:

It only stops you for maybe like 10 minutes, okay,

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

but it doesn't stop you for, like, a whole month.

Vanessa:

So, you know, I used to,

Kirsten:

Oh, that would be nice.

Kirsten:

Because I, yeah, it, it, it surprises me because, you know, I was a freelancer

Kirsten:

for 22 years, so I worked through vendors and I never took clients directly.

Kirsten:

I didn't have staff.

Kirsten:

Like, that was the thing I didn't do.

Kirsten:

And when I started this and I shifted over, I'm like, "Well, I've been,

Kirsten:

I've been freelancing through vendors.

Kirsten:

I know exactly what the deal is," and then of course, wrong.

Kirsten:

And now it's like I keep hearing this voice at the back of my head going,

Kirsten:

"Someday you'll stop having to recommit."

Kirsten:

And then it's like, no, no, that's going to be forever.

Kirsten:

That's going to be the, the rest of my journey,

Vanessa:

Kirsten:

is recommitting on a daily basis or on a weekly

Kirsten:

basis, is bringing it back up.

Kirsten:

So,

Vanessa:

But it get easier.

Vanessa:

It gets easier.

Kirsten:

Oh, well that, that's good news.

Kirsten:

So that's what I, I would certainly have told myself when I started.

Vanessa:

Mm-hmm.

Kirsten:

What would you go back to the you that first started

Kirsten:

this journey that you're on now?

Kirsten:

What would you tell her?

Vanessa:

So what I will tell her is that I know what I'm doing.

Vanessa:

That's what I would tell her.

Vanessa:

Like, you know what you're doing.

Vanessa:

Like, so I started this journey, so I was in corporate America doing strategy

Vanessa:

for big companies and, you know, helping them out to grow, et cetera.

Vanessa:

And I transitioned into having a small business consulting company to help

Vanessa:

small businesses grow and et cetera.

Vanessa:

And the thing is that even though yes, I've done strategy, I was promoted

Vanessa:

for it, I got paid big bucks for it, and it was awesome, there's still

Vanessa:

that imposter syndrome that crept in,

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

right.

Vanessa:

That feeling like, "Oh, you're new Vanessa," like, you know, and part of it

Vanessa:

is the spaces that, you know, I was in.

Vanessa:

Part of it was the people that was around me.

Vanessa:

And then part of it is also, you know, my own thoughts at the time.

Vanessa:

And that level of confidence though, right, impacts what

Vanessa:

you're saying yes or No to, right.

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

It impacts how often or how long you, you need to recommit.

Vanessa:

It impacts, right, the, you know, the, what do you call it, the fees I was

Vanessa:

asking for, I was not asking for, right.

Vanessa:

It impacted how I showed up in presentations where I would speak

Vanessa:

and share the message, right.

Vanessa:

Worried versus calm and confident.

Vanessa:

And so what I would tell my old self is that you know exactly

Vanessa:

what you're doing, right.

Vanessa:

And it also, you know, because it also impacts even, like I would invest in all

Vanessa:

these different programs and stuff because I was like, "I don't know what I'm doing."

Vanessa:

And it's like, "Turns out, I actually knew what I was doing" .

Vanessa:

But point being that, you know, there's always room to learn because ongoing

Vanessa:

mastery, but ultimately there is still, I would tell myself, you still

Vanessa:

have a really great foundation like, "Vanessa, you have great foundation."

Vanessa:

So that's what I'll tell myself, "You know what you're doing."

Kirsten:

That's awesome.

Vanessa:

Yes.

Kirsten:

So, I want to pick up on one thread in that, which is that the people

Kirsten:

that are around you really kind of set the tone and the power of finding

Kirsten:

the right network and the right group.

Kirsten:

Because you and I are now connected through many, many people who all have the

Kirsten:

same shared drive, and I'm not clear how this work could be done if I didn't have

Kirsten:

that network, that battery to tap into.

Kirsten:

How often is it that your clients don't realize that the people they surround

Kirsten:

themselves with really contribute to the energy they can bring to their success?

Vanessa:

It's, it's the main issue .

Vanessa:

It's the main issue because what happens a lot, especially in the brick and mortar

Vanessa:

business space, a lot of them are in this sort of, "I've got to do it myself."

Vanessa:

Like they're at home and they're at their store.

Vanessa:

They're at home, then they're at their store.

Vanessa:

And you know, they might in between there spend time with their, you know, grandkids

Vanessa:

and their spouse, but they're pretty much at home and they're at the store.

Vanessa:

And so there's this level of feeling like they're alone, which is why then they

Vanessa:

come to me and they're like, "Oh my gosh.

Vanessa:

I don't have to do this alone.

Vanessa:

I have a sounding board.

Vanessa:

There's someone else there for me when I'm spinning out of control, like, Oh

Vanessa:

my gosh, like, I can trust this person.

Vanessa:

This is great," right.

Vanessa:

And so it's actually a very common problem where a lot of them don't

Vanessa:

feel they have the network, right.

Vanessa:

And then what I'm also helping them do is see, "Okay, you literally

Vanessa:

have all these other people around you who are your friends and

Vanessa:

family who do support you," right.

Vanessa:

And so a lot of them also don't want to ask for help because they, there's this

Vanessa:

fear that someone's going to say no.

Kirsten:

Yeah

Vanessa:

Or there's this fear that, you know, "People

Vanessa:

don't really want to help me.

Vanessa:

Like, I'm, I'm a little person.

Vanessa:

I'm no one, you know, I've only been in business for like 12 years."

Vanessa:

And so unfortunately, I mean, no, it's true, like, but it's true, right.

Vanessa:

So a lot of it is also helping them to see that they have this

Vanessa:

network around them, right.

Vanessa:

They have this, you know, growth potential around them.

Vanessa:

And it's a matter of tapping into it.

Vanessa:

And so I remember, I, I was visiting a client in Michigan a few weeks

Vanessa:

ago, and I live in Massachusetts.

Vanessa:

I went out to Michigan to visit her and, yeah, and I saw her

Vanessa:

and was like, "Oh my gosh.

Vanessa:

Like you are sitting on a landmine of abundance right now," right.

Vanessa:

And helping her to see that you literally know this, this

Vanessa:

other person across the street.

Vanessa:

You know this business owner over there.

Vanessa:

You can all collaborate, like, and it's just really stepping into, into

Vanessa:

that network and into that sort of possibility and that potential that

Vanessa:

I also help my clients do, right.

Vanessa:

Because it is so important, so important to ask for help, right.

Kirsten:

Mm-hmm

Vanessa:

and to also realize that sometimes it's not even asking for help.

Vanessa:

It's like, you help someone, they help you, and it's a joint collaboration.

Vanessa:

It doesn't have to be like one person is just taking, taking, taking, right.

Vanessa:

It could be a give and receive, and that's ultimately what business comes down to.

Kirsten:

Nice.

Kirsten:

And on that note, what is your next step?

Kirsten:

What is on your plate for, coming up for you in the future?

Kirsten:

What are you working on?

Vanessa:

What am I working on?

Vanessa:

So, so I'll say to summarize what I'm

Vanessa:

working on, it's, I'm working on sharing my message continually.

Vanessa:

So ensuring that I'm just sharing the, how people can grow their business

Vanessa:

without burnout, because I do believe that it is unnecessary to do, to,

Vanessa:

like, hustle hard or die trying.

Vanessa:

That sort of mentality is really harming a lot of people.

Vanessa:

I mean, literally 72% of entrepreneurs have mental health issues versus

Vanessa:

48% of entrepreneurs, and this was a stat from pre pandemic, so you

Vanessa:

can only imagine during the pandemic how much worse it probably got.

Vanessa:

But that was the Department of Psychiatry, University of California, San

Vanessa:

Francisco, for those who are wondering.

Vanessa:

But yeah, but ultimately just continue to share that message of how people

Vanessa:

can really grow their business without burnout and really strive

Vanessa:

towards that generational wealth.

Vanessa:

So that not only financial freedom for themselves, which is why they started

Vanessa:

their business to begin with, but also for their spouse and for their grandkids.

Vanessa:

So they can pass down, you know, that wealth as well for generations to come.

Vanessa:

And so two upcoming things is one, a leadership workshop on quiet

Vanessa:

quitting prevention, so I do have a workshop coming up for that.

Vanessa:

And so people could check that out, vzamy.com.

Vanessa:

And then I'm also speaking at the, in Seattle for the Financial Planning

Vanessa:

Association annual conference.

Vanessa:

And so what's the topic?

Vanessa:

How do avoid burnout.

Vanessa:

Kirsten:

Vanessa:

So I'll be helping them to avoid business burnout while they are,

Vanessa:

you know, also avoiding self-sabotage.

Vanessa:

It helps to avoid self-sabotage and get unstuck in their income.

Vanessa:

So, yeah.

Kirsten:

Amazing.

Kirsten:

So 72% of entrepreneurs and 48% of,

Vanessa:

versus 48% of non,

Kirsten:

but non entrepreneurs

Vanessa:

Yeah, self employed

Kirsten:

Yeah, that's a pretty, pretty notable distinction.

Kirsten:

Okay.

Vanessa:

Yeah

Kirsten:

I feel less alone.

Kirsten:

Thank you .

Vanessa:

Kirsten:

All right.

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

So I, I know I will see in other things, in other social networks, but

Vanessa:

Yes

Kirsten:

where, so, so your website is YourVisionsCatalyst

Vanessa:

catalyst.com.

Kirsten:

.com

Vanessa:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

Or some of type in vanessazamy.com.

Vanessa:

Just type vanessazamy.com, you'll get there too .

Kirsten:

All right, fantastic.

Kirsten:

So, awesome seeing you.

Kirsten:

I will see you at the next whatever.

Vanessa:

Kirsten:

Hopefully, it's a chance to go out and grab some dinner

Kirsten:

and drinks, but have a great one.

Kirsten:

Thank you so much for coming on.

Kirsten:

I really appreciate it.

Vanessa:

Thank you for having me.

Vanessa:

It was a pleasure.

Kirsten:

And for all of you who are watching or listening, please come to

Kirsten:

LinkedIn and join the Ongoing Mastery: Presenting & Speaking group, just so

Kirsten:

that we have some connection points.

Kirsten:

We could share some information with you and you can let us know what you think.

Kirsten:

Your question for the week, I believe, is what your walkout music would be.

Kirsten:

So, Vanessa, what would your ideal walkout music be?

Vanessa:

As soon as you said that question, I was like, "Ooh,

Vanessa:

I got an answer".

Vanessa:

But, but my walkout music is "Run the World" by Beyonce.

Vanessa:

That's also my like, walk in music too.

Vanessa:

But yeah, it's a whole thing.

Vanessa:

And then, yeah, just, and then we also just commissioned a song, like a beat, as

Vanessa:

well, for our, like, own podcast thing.

Vanessa:

And so we also have a, a beat there too.

Kirsten:

Ooohh

Vanessa:

I don't have any words on it though, but yeah.

Vanessa:

So, yeah.

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

Okay.

Kirsten:

All right, well, that is it and I will see everybody next week.

Kirsten:

Thank you all.

About the Podcast

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Ongoing Mastery: Presenting & Speaking
Presentation and Speaking Skills for Business Leaders

About your host

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Kirsten Rourke