This week, Kellie and I talk about current developments
in our entrepreneurial journey.
Find out why I've rediscovered a
database I built years ago and what
it's like for Kellie, who's a partner
in two separate startups right now.
Let's jump into it.
Welcome to Ongoing Mastery:
Presenting & Speaking the podcast,
and today the conversation.
How are you?
Kellie: How are you
I am good.
Today we're gonna talk about
the entrepreneurial journey.
'cause we've had, we've had some
stuff, like all entrepreneurs, we've
had some stuff happen, haven't we?
And like all entrepreneurs,
but in our own way also.
And the reason we're doing this episode
this way is because there's a lot of
people that we know that are also in
the entrepreneurial space, and it gets
hard to remember that everything that
changes, even if it's not the original
direction you want it to be going
in, is actually really good data for
you to get to where you want to go.
So, Everyone who's watching the video
should be watching Kellie's face during
this part because Kellie and Dani were
very, very patient with me because I
am not great at customer relationship
management stuff like tracking and being
able to keep the details and dot the
i's and cross the T's is not my gift.
Notice again, Kellie's face as
she's going, no, no it's not.
Kellie: I, on the other hand, am a
T-shirt owning member of the Oxford
Kirsten: Comma Club.
And I respect that.
The Oxford comma rules.
So I have been trying to find a CRM.
That would work for me, and I kept
finding ones that were fine, provided
that either Kellie or Dani wrote
her on me and kind of reminded me to
do this stuff, which as she pointed
out to me yesterday, is not actually
an effective way of using the tool.
It's a tool that works for
Kellie: me and I can get you to
make it work for you, but it doesn't
Kirsten: actually work for you.
The word get is operative there.
. So Kellie, what is it?
Why don't you talk for a minute about
the tool that you and Dani use and the
reaction that Chris and I had to it
Kellie: So the tool is called Click Up, and it has the capacity
for multiple tiered levels of task
organization and the status of the
task and who the task gets kicked to.
And multiple operational
areas, et cetera, et cetera.
It's incredibly fiddly, but if you
like fiddly, it's incredibly satisfying
because when it's working, you can
look at any project that's there.
When is the keyword there?
can look at any project, know
whose plate it's on, and when it's
moving to the next person's plate.
You can check in about it
and find out what's going on,
if it's overdue and so on.
And for Dani and I, it's terrific.
I don't have any problem finishing a
task, going in, kicking it to the next
person as part of my daily workflow.
Or maybe I'll do it at the end of the
day, update all the things I worked on.
But that kind of thing
makes a lot of sense to me.
And when we first started using the
tool, talking with my husband's,
also an entrepreneur in the middle of
also founding his own company at the
same time we're doing this and his
face just blank horror and physically
recoiling as I'm talking about all
of the little ticky boxes that you
can do this and do that and do that.
And he, he couldn't even let
me finish the explanation.
He's like, I got it.
I'm never using it.
The funny thing is, is that I didn't
recoil in horror, but internally
I had that sort of same reaction.
Chris and I are obviously a lot of like,
it's really important entrepreneurs.
If you do not, if you are like me,
and you are not somebody who is,
you are a big picture vision person.
You are a driver.
You are a person who is like, okay,
let's go ahead and get you into the
right space, but you are not the,
okay, let's fill out this form and
let's make sure this is done correctly.
Every Tuesday at 3:00 PM
you are not that person.
You need a Kellie and a Dani in your life.
Like you need people who can do that
because that still needs to get done.
But I kept going.
Click Up is amazing.
I mean, it's a great tool.
, but it also requires me to behave in
a way that is just very alien to me.
And so I kept trying and I
kept finding tools and was
frustrating them a little bit.
Maybe a lot with Yeah, yeah, yeah.
With how much I would start a tool and
then within a mother matter of hours,
days, or weeks, be like, oh yeah.
So I really have to get back to that.
So in your life, Kellie, do you have
any friends that you are the people
you go to when you really just need
a reality smack upside the head?
You wouldn't have anybody like
that in your life, do you?
I have a lot of people
Kellie: like that in my life.
, you don't work with them?
Kirsten: Yeah, I was gonna
say, I'm like, you don't work
with anybody like that do you?
So I, at my previous job, worked with
this amazing woman who was also a friend
of mine named Karen and Karen Blades is.
She's a fantastic mentor.
She's just really, really good at kind of
looking at the whole of what you're saying
and then going, okay, you're talking
about this and that's wonderful, but let's
go over here and talk about how you're
approaching this and what that's doing.
So she at one point said,
well, we use Notion.
And we built our own and
why don't you do that?
And I'm like, oh, I'd have to restart it.
And flappy hand Princess
thing come to what?
Two weeks ago I decided, okay, I'll
open Notion and see what's in there.
And oh, all the stuff that Karen
and I built is still there.
It, it's not gone.
It's not blocked.
So I didn't realize I had actually
moved it to my own account and
it wasn't lost to me forever.
Alright, so then I told Kellie, so
I have this tool that I actually
built and it works the way my brain
does, and she was gracious enough to
not make a face of, you've got to be
freaking kidding me, but even though
she didn't make the face, it was there.
Kellie: Well, I am a college faculty
member who will have students in my
office asking . Questions that are
perhaps already on the syllabus.
So I have some practice with
the, yeah, the, the tilt and the
Kirsten: nod, the, Hmm.
Interesting choice you made.
So actually this Friday I am
gonna do a one hour open on live.
Live on LinkedIn.
If anybody feels like
showing up, they'll show up.
You know, I'll let people know
about it, but I'm gonna go through
my notion and explain how it works
to anybody who caress to be there,
because it's one of those things that.
It makes a lot more sense when
you see somebody's completed
version than if you're trying to
do it for the first time yourself.
Because the original versions of
this took me weeks, months to do.
And now this time I'm coming in, going
fiddle, fiddle, fiddle, fiddle, fiddle.
Kellie: we'll put the link, we'll
put the link to that in the show
notes because this will go live
after you've done your walkthrough
Kirsten: with Notion.
And that'll be up on I, no
doubt, our YouTube or something.
So, Kellie, what other things for the
entrepreneurial journey do you think that
we should share with everybody today?
Because there's several things
that you and I talked about.
That would be, So why don't
you grab one out of the ether.
Kellie: I wanna pick up
on that you just said.
I read someone of our friends
in our network on LinkedIn and
I apologize for forgetting who
made the point recently about.
Failure as, not failure, but reframing
it as data collection points that you
need data to make decisions, whether
that decision is to keep on doing
what you're doing or to change it.
, but you need data and when
you try things, you have data.
And you need it.
And so I loved that way
of reframing iterations.
That you are gonna go through versions
of yourself as entrepreneur, as your
business model, as what you are providing.
I'm watching my husband's company and
at first they thought it was gonna be
a product based, and then they're like,
maybe it's gonna be a service based, and
now they're back to product based, but
they had to go through the process of
Thinking through and getting to next stage
development and what would that look like?
Not all the way to build out, but far
enough to know that they had to pivot.
And that is just how it is.
And the more you can embrace it,
the easier the iterations will be.
Kirsten: And for those of you
who are watching or listening who
haven't noticed forever, Kellie's
husband is a serial entrepreneur.
Yes, he has.
He has successfully created and launched
and sent out into the world many,
many, many really interesting ventures.
So this isn't like somebody
who came in and went, oh God,
I didn't know what I was doing.
It's like literally, these are
some very experienced people doing
this, and they still had to pivot.
So one of the things that I know comes up
a lot for me and Kelly think comes up for
you sometimes is it's hard to remember.
If you think in terms of, oh, if only
I knew at 18 what I know today, yeah.
Then I'd be so about all of these
things and I have to remember that.
The only way that would work is if
the person then has all the knowledge
and experience of the person now.
So I had to go through everything.
Like the year and a half, two years
we've been doing this has been amazing.
It's been wonderful.
It's been terrifying.
It's been all the things, you know?
, all the, all the, we got the t-shirt, it's
a backs of crackers, all the stuff and.
It's been incredibly educational.
Because all the things I'm learning
are about how to come closer to
the true version of me that the
business needs to be for it to work.
. So Kellie, what kind of stuff?
It's been a wild ride.
What kind of stuff has it been for you?
Kellie: So, for me, having.
In my house, my husband being in the
middle of startup phase, and here in a
big chunk of my professional life being
in startup phase, it's been kind of
nail biting and sometimes when the, I
really need to think hard is happening
for both of you at the same time.
That's really nailbiting.
'cause I don't know what's happening
and I can't do anything about it.
And I have to be patient because
the big picture people are
doing the big picture thing.
But sometimes when you are out of
phase, so one of you is in the more
really precise detail part, and one
of you is in the big picture part.
That's also stressful because
now I'm switching back and forth
between two separate modes.
. So it's an interesting being at the
pivot point for two separate, but in
some ways parallel sets of processes.
It's also been really fascinating for
me to watch you come round and come
round and kind of keep getting closer
and then something will pull you away.
, but then when you come
back you're like, no, no.
That was a mistake.
And that cycle is getting shorter.
Which is nice, right?
That you are adapting and really
integrating into yourself what you need
to make your vision be in the world.
And that's awesome for me both
as your friend and as your
colleague on this adventure.
One of the things I will advise or
you know, just recommend to everybody.
Watching and listening if you are in
the shoes that Kellie and Dani are in
of essentially having to herd the cats.
One of the things every Friday we
do, uh, Speaker Friend Friday for
Innovation Women, and Kellie introduces
herself as herder of cats at Rourke
Training, and Kirsten is the cat.
. Yes, exactly.
One of the things that is really,
really important is self-care.
One of the things is energy management.
Tolerance management and the ability to
step away and go, I need to recharge.
. So if you're watching or listening, if
you are in one of the roles where you're
like, Kellie, and you're a foundation
piece that keeps, like, this stuff is
spinning over here and you're like, okay,
let's just keep it in this container.
and not like spilling all over the place.
That is a very energy intensive work.
Even if the work is, I need to wait.
Like that is, that is an energy
intensive thing, so please, we both
encourage you to just take your time.
And for someone in my shoes, my goal
that I need to keep coming back to is
giving myself grace and giving myself
permission to be iterative and to
be not all the things all the time,
exactly in the moment for Kellie.
What I need to sometimes remind you
of my dear is that while you are
superwoman and you do have superpowers
and can leap buildings in a single
bound with an Oxford comma in your
backpack, you're still a human being
that might need to actually take a
fricking day off every once in a while.
You know, just a thought.
Kellie: I do.
You do have to remind me.
Kirsten: is true.
So everybody, we wanted to have an
entrepreneurial conversation with you
today because I, I am learning so much.
I could not, I I, I am so
lucky to be doing this.
I'm learning so much.
It is so enriching.
And I, one of the things I'm getting.
Is like I need to have certain things.
Like yesterday I had to stop working
on the database in Notion because I was
designing it, and I got to the point
where I literally couldn't see the pieces
anymore and I was getting fuzzy, and so I
had to stop and turn off all of my tech.
Go in the other room and turn on No
Man's Sky and climb around in alien
landscapes and, and make a little
creature that is from a toxic planet and
has little light bulbs built into it.
And it squeaks and it coos and it's
a little weird dog how thing my pet.
So it follows me around
going, oh, strange creature.
So I made that my hour and then
came back and now I have a little
alien pet from a toxic land that has
little light bulbs built into it.
It's so cute.
So Kellie, what are, what
is something that you do?
That is your way of resetting.
Kellie: One of the things I
do is to try to move more, so
I try to get out for a walk.
I've started a fitness program at my
local Y and part of the reason why that's
great is because it dovetails neatly
into picking our teenager up from school.
It's right down the street from her high
school, but I do a lot of work sitting
right here in front of the laptop screen,
and I need to not always sit here.
For what I'm doing to relax or whatever.
And so I'll get up, I'll move, I've
started listening to audiobooks,
um, so that I'm doing something
while I'm out for a walk.
And it often will make me walk a little
bit longer as I get to a breaking
point in the story where I can turn it
off and my walk will be finished now.
So the movement helps a lot.
Just doing something different
than sitting here, but also
just for my physical self.
Kirsten: Yes, 100%.
So for those watching and listening,
what are the things that you do?
How do you reset yourself?
Where are you on your
And if you're not an entrepreneur, is
this new information for you or is this
stuff that you're really familiar with?
We have, I.
Coming up next month an interview with
one of the people who's one of the masters
of Notion and also of productivity from
RAD Reads, and I'm really looking forward
to that because part of my journey was.
Being in a cohort, in his program.
And so I got a lot of what I've learned
was stuff that I refreshed from two
years ago back when I was in his stuff.
So who are the people that you learn from?
What are the programs or books or
resources that you wanna share?
Let us know.
Put it in the comments, give us some,
give us some feedback and that way
we can share it and keep building our
community, our ongoing mastery family.
So that is it for today.
We just had an entrepreneurial
I've got my gallon of coffee in my mug.
Kellie: I've got my full liter of tea in
So we will see y'all next time.
Have a good one.
If you enjoyed this conversation
about the entrepreneurial journey,
check out season one, episode number
10, our wrap up of season one.
That took an earlier look at how
we came to be entrepreneurs at all.
The link is in the show notes.