This week I talk with Natalie Bullen sales coach and
messaging guru extraordinaire about
why public speaking is like going to
the gym and how to build community.
Also find out which business
choice she calls bullshit on.
Let's jump into it.
Hello everyone and welcome to Ongoing
Mastery: Presenting & Speaking,
the podcast and the interview.
And we have Dun, dun,
Natalie: dun, Natalie Bullen.
Kirsten: Hello everyone.
So Natalie, please tell people
the smallest possible version
of your superhero story.
Natalie: Oh, okay.
. Once upon a time there was a villain.
Yeah, . Once upon a time, there was
an unexpected hero and she worked
a job because that's what you do.
And she went to college
because that's what you do.
And she got a master's
because that's what you do.
And she bought a home
because that's what you do.
And she worked a second job to pay for
her student loans because she was so
prudent and thought that was great.
And then she got sick and went through
a bad breakup and lost her job and
ended up filing personal bankruptcy.
It really sucked because she was a
personal finance guru and she was
a banker, and she was a finance
minor, and she was meticulous and
had never been on even one vacation.
As an adult.
She had no luxury at all, and the hero
realized that the American dream is
actually completely fictitious, that
there is no freedom in not having savings,
that you can't budget your way out of
poverty, and that she should stop trying.
So she decided that if the big financial
institutions weren't going to teach
finances in a way that actually benefited
people, that she was going to do it.
And she quit her job and she
started Unapologetic Wealth.
A coaching and consulting firm that
helps you charge more and sell better.
I focus on money mindset.
I focus on pricing strategies.
And more recently, uh, deep
dive into your sales funnel.
I did six figures in revenue
my very first year in business
knowing . Absolutely nothing.
So you could certainly do better than I
did, and that is why my business exists
to catapult you into the 1.7% of women
entrepreneurs that are seven figure.
And to get you on stages where you
can showcase your talent and skills
and land more business The end.
I like it.
It wasn't bad.
Had a climax and everything.
All we need to do is animate it and we're
That would be cool.
For impromptu, it was excellent.
So for those who don't know, I met
Natalie when I became her client.
And then over time
also, we became friends.
And so Natalie is one of my mentors and
I am in a program with people, the Siren
Sales Academy, and we are all supporting
each other on our various journeys.
So the funny thing is, I am
A middle-aged white lady from Connecticut.
Natalie is not, and yet , we are
so damn much alike in so many ways.
It is really, really funny except for
when it comes to the persistence and
diligence and all of the things around
finance, which is one of the reasons
why I go to her and go, Natalie, help
Natalie: me please.
So thank you
Kirsten: for coming on the podcast.
I want everybody to, you know, kind of
see the joy that is the true personality.
So, You have been talking with me
about kind of your goals for stages.
And where you wanna go.
What are your thoughts about that?
What do you wanna do?
Natalie: What are your plans?
I'm not so much a planner, but I'm
thinking about how do I get my message
to the largest number of people?
. I would love to be in really
large events, summits.
Conferences, you know, like outreach,
that big sales conference that they have,
you know, not Afro Tech because I'm tech
allergic, but something of that size.
I would love that.
You know, I wanted to go to 10 women.
I believe it started today in
Atlanta, if I'm not mistaken, and so
I am not so much, I wanna get paid
10, 20, $30,000 for this keynote.
I want a thousand people in the audience
to hear my message and be able to
get connected and like hooked in with
the mission of Unapologetic Wealth.
Because once people hear the mission and
they get it, they want to buy from me.
They want to invest in the services.
So I don't have to put
a hard sell on people.
I just need them to hear me.
Like I literally just
need to be on stages.
Kirsten: So when people are talking
about presenting and things, I know
that you love PowerPoint decks, like
it's one of your favorite things ever
is to make a PowerPoint, isn't it?
Natalie: I hate them so much.
It's one of the things that drew me to
you because anybody who's like, look,
if you're doing a conversion event, an
enrollment event, you need a deck period.
If you are up here selling this
thing, But for most people who are
just trying to get a motivational
message across, it is distracting.
I actually just came from a live event and
everyone who came with slides struggled.
. There was a timing issue between
the slides and the, the speaker.
The slides were here and the
speaker was Cat Corner here.
You couldn't look at the person
speaking and the slides simultaneously,
not the speaker's fault.
They had no way of knowing that
until they got to the venue, but by
then it was too late because they'd
already built a speech up around.
I feel like slides are a liability.
I think it's almost like
packing with a check bag.
Yeah, like if you've got a carry on,
you can weather more travel bumps.
Yes, you can deplane and leave instead
of having to go, you know, like
it's, you're so much more flexible
if you travel with a carry on.
So that's kind of how I
view having a really strong.
Internal compass of your message and being
able to memorize enough of it to stay
on track without needing the visual aid.
I don't know that they've
ever helped me, to be honest.
I, as you know, I always encourage people
to be able to do it without the deck.
, I have recently had some people say,
Hey, one thing you're missing is that
this one person said I'm, oh, spicy.
I need that for structure.
And I'm like, okay, solid.
Yeah, so let's come up with structured
ways to give you that support.
Yeah, but you and I have both seen
people doing the presentation where
they, this happens all the time.
Where they lead off with the deck is the
presenter and I'm somehow its assistant.
Natalie: I have seen people lead
with that and I'm like, this is the
most bizarre thing I've ever seen.
Why would you give away all of
your power and agency to static
slides and charts and graphs?
That I don't know how technical of a
presentation, like maybe if I was applying
for a Nobel Prize in economics and
needed to show some very complex model
or forecasting or, you know what I mean?
And maybe there's some scientific
field, some PhD research where I.
No, you absolutely need to have
a visual aid or you will not be
able to understand the concept.
I don't know anybody doing speeches about
that in general that I can name offhand.
. So for me, I think people tend
to use the slides as a crutch.
They actually cannot do it without
the presentation, and they're
trying to use the slides as a way
to buffer against their nerves.
Even if I get jittery and nervous,
I still have my slides, and that's
not the way you should look at it.
I think you should be thinking, I know
exactly what I'm going to discuss,
but for the types of persons who like
taking notes and who need a visual
aid for accessibility standpoint,
I would like to offer slides.
And even then, I'm more a fan now
of having one slide up behind me
the whole time with a QR code.
That QR code lead people to the whole
presentation if they'd like the slide deck
or whatever else I'm selling them into.
That way there's no distraction
of the clicking of slides.
people can review them themselves
on their own smart device.
The worst thing
Kirsten: I've seen people do is
they time out their presentation.
And that traps you to following the deck.
And doesn't allow you to do things like
taking a question or going down a rabbit
hole or having any of the other things.
Natalie: true, because now your
slides don't align with what
you're speaking about because
you've gotten off the script.
But I think that's the
problem with scripts.
Now you see why I refuse to write sales
scripts for people because mm-hmm.
, it's the same problem.
You don't know what the other person
is going to say, so you can't very
well put the scripts only work if
everybody sticks to the script.
Everybody, all the players have to
stick to the script when you go out
and speak and you ask the audience
for questions, even if you don't ask.
I just didn't Eight minute talk that
was, you know, styled after Ted in
terms of the duration and the gist.
. And even at the end of my talk,
people had questions, even though
it wasn't that kind of talk.
Imagine if I'd said, well, no,
I don't have any space for q and
a, because it's not on the slide.
Like, that feels odd.
And so I think people feel safer with
public speaking because they can hide
behind the deck instead of thinking, what
can I do to make sure that the . Emotion
I want to convey, and the motivation
and the goal of the talk is achieved.
Kirsten: obviously, preachers of the choir, it's all about
What do you recommend because you
are a financial expert, you're
also a sales messaging expert.
When people are trying to do that
connection with their audience, what do
you recommend for people who are trying
to learn what the first steps are in
getting that relationship building going?
What are the things that you
see trip people up a lot?
Natalie: I like that.
Well, first I think that these
people should at minimum book
a strategy session with you.
Because I think they need to have some.
I like that strategy.
Before they get up on stage.
People think, oh, I'm gonna come to
Natalie because Natalie knows sales.
And she is gonna help me get up
on the stage and have confidence.
But I'm not gonna write
your speech for you.
I'm not a speech writer.
And whatever the brand objective
that you have for your company
needs to resonate in your speech.
And so first, in order for you to have
the confidence to show up, you need
to make sure that there is cohesion.
So a, you need to hire a speaker coach.
You need to hire Kirsten Rohr.
Period after you have done that,
Kirsten: I'm loving.
This is my favorite podcast
of all the podcasts.
Natalie: you have done that and you have
gotten clear on why you are on the stage
in the first place, What is the objective?
Is the objective to win over stakeholders?
Is the objective?
To entertain the crowd is the
objective to take, get people to
take some action and be persuasive.
If you and Kirsten decide that this
is a persuasive talk and you want to
persuade people to buy something, mm-hmm.
, then I would say you have to
ask yourself how warm is the
audience you're stepping into.
To be able to make sure that you've got
plans, I guess I would say, for lack
of better word, so I've been called
in to be a speaker at the last minute.
Nobody knew who the speaker was gonna be.
They dropped out, they got
sick, they had Covid, whatever.
I've been paid to be a financial
literacy speaker at churches where
all they knew was that someone
was coming to talk about money.
The way that you speak to a group of
persons who have no idea who you are, no
idea of your credibility, no clue about
what you're gonna talk about is very
different than when you've been called in
to do a keynote that you've been paid for.
, that you do on a routine
basis to an organization who
you go support every year.
So you need to understand the warmth
scale to know how much trust building
and relationship do I need to do on the
front, because for people who are cold or
coldish lukewarm, You've gotta start with
a space of these people don't know me.
How do I get them to know
I can trust me right away?
You'll notice in my introduction
when I came on this podcast, you
started to relate to me right away.
You may have had a job
where you were underpaid.
You might be buried in student loan
debt, you might be working two jobs.
You might have realized
the American dream is bss.
So you immediately started to trust me.
Even though you have no idea who I am,
you've gotta be able to figure out,
okay, based on this audience, here's the
posture that I need to take in order to be
taken seriously by this group of people.
Um, as an aside, I think that
most people don't practice enough.
Yes, I find that there's
very little rehearsal or
practice, and I am an anomaly.
I'm the type of person that, for
the most part can get up on stage
and make something coherent happen.
But if you're the type of person
who rambles is hard for you
to track time in your mind.
If you're not a professional speaker,
I highly recommend that you get
a level of practice out there.
Kirsten actually has a practice
session, which I think is genius, and
she's one of the only sales coaches
I've seen offer something like that.
Doesn't involve a big, long commitment,
but you can actually meet with her
for a period of time to rehearse
your speech and get live critique.
Kirsten: I am cracking up that I
asked you to come on an interview
and you're selling my shit for me.
I'll, I'm loving this.
Natalie: Thank you.
That's what people need to do
because otherwise you practice
in front of your husband.
Your husband's not listening to you.
If he's anything like my husband, by
the time my husband's on the couch for
quality time, he means quality time.
He does not mean I wanna
critique your business model.
I wanna listen to your rant.
He's not listening.
Like I'm just being honest.
So, and he's not a speaker coach
and he's not my ideal client and
he's not a decision maker of a,
like, he's just not applicable.
So I think it's good to be able to
get, you know, reps in, I think you
know, if you wanna be fit, you need
to do reps of lifting weight, right?
They do sets, you do reps, and the
repetition is what gets you better.
I find that a lot of people who say
they're not good at public speaking, what
they really mean is I have not taken any
time to practice my public speaking skill.
I haven't done enough reps.
And so it feels like new every time.
If you don't go to the gym, but
once a year it's gonna suck.
Every year it's gonna feel really bad
because you've never gotten your muscles.
Any kind of memory to improve
speaker still is exactly like that.
I hope I answered your question.
You totally did.
And now I'm thinking
Kirsten: that I wanna put together an
ad that says January 3rd, you go to the
gym, you haven't been there all year.
How does that feel?
And it's gonna suck.
And it's gonna suck every year.
And so for people who really want
to get better at public speaking,
the goal is to get more reps in.
I started off speaking for free as
a financial literacy specialist.
I mean, I would sometimes get honorarium,
you know, the bank would pay me for
16 hours of customer service being a.
Community service, but in general it
was free, but it got me reputation.
It got me on television here
locally in Huntsville, Alabama.
And that built my credibility to
the point where I could start asking
people for, you know, nominal a
thousand dollars just enough for me
to say, you know, I got paid for this.
I have some skin in the game.
And that got me on bigger stages,
and that got me in conferences.
And you just move your way up.
And again, you always need to
decide what's in it for you.
Do you need to get paid
upfront to make it worth it?
Are you able to sell from the
stage to make it worth it?
I have finally gotten clarity on
my book, and so this time next year
I'll be a published author and that
will be huge because at that point
I'm gonna start negotiating into
my speaking contracts in person.
, I need to be able to sell my books.
Well, you need to buy a book for everyone
in the audience, or you need to let
me set up a table so I can sell them.
Which would you choose?
You know, which would you prefer?
Kirsten: you have many,
many, many superpowers.
And I, I admire all of them.
I don't, but, oh, I know.
But I'm gonna whack you
'cause you're, you're wrong.
This is me.
Dope slapping you in the head.
'cause you're wrong, . So the thing
that kills me is you're an introvert.
You're an introvert.
Who, by her very nature build communities
that are some of the most tenacious.
Like long tentacles out into the internet.
All the things.
I mean, damn woman, if you, if
you worked for like a secret
agency, we would all be screwed.
I mean, I love it.
So what do you advise people who are
thinking about building community?
Because you and I know, and I'm not
gonna go there, but I'm gonna go there.
You and I met in a community that was
not healthy and not run well and perhaps
had some ethical challenges, perhaps.
Perhaps So, yeah, I'm.
Name any names, but if you dmm me,
I'll tell you who we're talking about.
Perfect . No, no problem.
So what is your advice for building
communities of value and that are aligned
to your mission and to your truth?
Natalie: love this question.
Well, first, I think you need to know
what your mission and your truth is.
Kirsten: other than come worship
I feel like people need to actually
understand what that is, and I think
you should do an audit of your ethos,
your mission, your messaging, your
marketing, at least once a quarter.
You should ask holistically, you
know, uh, unapologetic Wealth's
original mission was to eradicate
poverty in communities of color.
, it has since been updated because I
realized that I don't serve people
who are in the midst of poverty.
That's not where the
bulk of my clients are.
That's not where the bulk of my work is.
So, By virtue of my, maybe my
nonprofit that I plan to launch
years from now that might eradicate
poverty and homelessness, but this
business is not actually doing that.
So we updated our mission actually
to create more women led million
dollar businesses because that's
actually the outcome that Unapologetic
Wealth is working towards.
So one, you need to be doing an audit.
What is your ethos and does the way
that you run your business meet that?
Are they in alignment?
Do the offers align with what
you say you're going to do?
Does your work hours align?
Does your team align?
If you say you're big on diversity, but
everybody on your team looks exactly like
you, there's not a lot of diversity there.
You need to do something.
Either you need to change what
your mission is or you need to
change what your team is, right?
You have to take some responsibility.
Two, I think you have
to use your strengths.
Believe it or not, in my top
15 Clifton strengths, I only
have one relationship building.
Yeah, it's really bad.
It's really, really bad.
Oh my god, it's terrible.
I'll send you my full report later.
It's really bad.
Oh, you gotta it because my
Kirsten: it bad.
My top wood is blue's.
Oh, it's really bad.
Natalie: like all the way.
I just don't even know
why they suck so bad.
Oh, it's terrible.
So, I met with two different Clifton
strengths coaches because, um, I'm
an Enneagram eight and I don't like
to believe what people say about me.
So if mm-hmm.
, I don't agree with the
personality assessment, I just
tell myself it's incorrect.
And my number one Clifton
strength is competitiveness.
And I think that's bullshit.
I think it's an absolute lie because
they have ambition or achievement as an
option, and that I think is more accurate.
I don't know enough about
what other people are doing
to be in competition with you.
Like I'm normally head down working
like I flat don't care what most
people are doing, so like I think
it's erroneous, nevertheless.
Kirsten: would say that.
If it included you being
competitive with yourself, yes.
But if it means always being
competitive with others, it does.
Natalie: It means being
the best and besting
'cause you don't ever
give a shit about that,
Natalie: but, and that was my whole point.
I don't care about other
people, what they're doing.
That's their business.
The whole thing was just bizarre.
Anyway, I only have one.
Is it restorative?
Maybe it's individualization.
Both of them are in my top five.
I can't remember which one
is actually, but of my 15.
One, so I lead with influence.
It's all I've got.
So I build community by showcasing
my gift and showcasing my influence
and then using it to draw people.
To me, it's like the Pi
Piper method, really.
It's the best I got.
So I tend to stand out in the
market square and get my megaphone
and start shouting how I feel.
And people are like, I think I
feel that way, I wanna do that.
And like they're drawn to it.
The three things I would tell
someone who wants to build community
is one to show up every day.
I'm not saying you have to physically
show up with your body every day.
I'm saying your mission, your method needs
to be visible every day because online
means that your business is always open.
So back, back in the day, you know,:
ubiquitous, you had stores and the
stores opened, and the stores closed.
And when they closed, they
locked up their gates.
And so it didn't matter what was going
on in the store at midnight because
nobody was in the store at midnight.
But with online businesses, people
are in your store all the time.
They're on your website, they're
on your Instagram, they're on
your LinkedIn, they're around,
they're watching your lead magnets.
I had someone take my quiz at
three o'clock this morning.
People are always around.
So what are they seeing
when they're around?
Do they see you showing
up being your best self?
Or do they not hear anything
for weeks and weeks because
you're feeling self-conscious?
So I think showing up is important too.
I think you need to identify
your stakeholders, okay?
You need to identify who the
people are that are going to
move your mission forward.
Early on that I needed some help because
I am an introvert and I only have so
much people that I can do in a day.
So I say, you know,
Natalie, what makes sense?
Do you want to get an
influencer and pay them?
Do you wanna run ads?
I didn't have any money.
Do you wanna get a business partner?
So I decided that I was gonna enlist
my clients to become my best allies.
So I started treating my clients.
Really, really well.
I started treating them better
than what they paid before I
started being around all the time.
I wanna be on your Facebook page.
I want you have my
personal cell phone number.
I have boundaries.
No one has ever abused having my personal
cell phone number, but every client
who's paid me knows I give a damn.
And so they have kind of become
their own little Natalie Army.
On my behalf.
And a lot of my clients are extroverts
and they tell a lot of people about me.
They tell everybody with ears about me.
Kirsten: like bringing
you onto her podcast?
No, they share.
I didn't know anybody about with their
And they go to live events and
they talk me up and they introduce
me and the emails and it's huge.
And so that's, you gotta identify
who your stakeholders are.
My best stakeholders are my clients.
Whoever your best stakeholders are, you
need to identify them and leverage them.
And by leverage I don't
mean use , I mean utilize.
And the third thing that I
would tell somebody is have fun.
I feel like most people build a
community based on this very well.
We're gonna have this chart and
we're gonna have these rules and
we're gonna have these numbers.
And you know, we're gonna grow
by 18% year over year and like.
Yeah, but does anyone give a damn?
You know, like, does anyone care?
Is anyone having a good, like
when's the last time you laughed?
Maybe you should go on your
Facebook live and just laugh.
I think that is what people want.
People want communities
where it looks like fun.
They don't want your community
that looks like work.
And a lot of people have built up a
community that frankly looks really dull.
Not something I wanna get involved in.
So yeah, those are tips I would give
to somebody who was . Introverted
and wants to build a community.
Now I'm gonna ask you one final question
because I could absolutely, as you
know, talk to you for hours and have,
if you were gonna give, well, you are.
'cause I'm about to ask you one thing
about developing ongoing mastery in your
areas of skill or your areas of genius.
What do you recommend people put
some thought on about their own
Natalie: ongoing mastery?
I love that you should create your
own continuing education calendar.
Now I come from a regulated industry.
I have securities licenses, and so I
am mandated to do a certain amount of
continuing education, and it has its
calendar, and I decided I was going to
make one for my own personal development.
. And so every single year I
go to at least one in-person
conference, not a sales pitch.
Not a launch, not a party, a conference
or a workshop or a seminar to strengthen
my skill, either in sales or marketing.
Used to be financial advising.
at least one in person.
I also go quarterly to something virtual
to help me sharpen my skillset, whether
that's a paid workshop or masterclass.
Uh, man, I've been through so many
programs, and then I also do something
semi-annually for Mindset Last year.
It was positive intelligence.
, that was my three Q four.
And then I've gotten in a, a different
mindfulness program, Q one, Q two.
I'm still looking for my second half,
what I'm gonna do this year virtually.
And then monthly I read at least
one book, not a fiction book, a
book specifically on the thing.
So if I wanna get better at high
ticket sales, I need to write,
read a book on high ticket sales.
So I have, I have a calendar basically of.
This is what I do and
when I do, it's so smart.
'cause then you don't have
to really remember to do it.
And then the years go on and you've
created more mastery is what is an
expert 10,000 hours of Of practice.
But like are they 10,000 relevant hours?
Because you could be a judo master.
In 1980, but if you haven't done judo
since then, are you still a master?
Maybe you still have some of
the fundamental expertise,
but you're pretty rusty.
If you haven't actually donejudo since:
say you're a master anymore.
And so I think ongoing means just that.
It means having a dedication
to lifetime learning.
And holding yourself accountable
for learning the thing that it's
going to take to grow your business.
This is where I just get super frustrated
with folks because it feels like they
get great at something and just quit.
They're like, oh, I know how to market.
I market for myself.
I'm a marketer, and they just allege
that they're marketers and they just
go off and start selling stuff, and
it's like, When's the last time you
invested in learning about the cutting
edge techniques and tools for marketers?
Oh, I haven't.
When's the last time you went to a
sales conference to learn your skill?
When's the last time you picked up
the phone and just did some outbound
dials to see if you still got it?
Oh, I haven't, those kind of
people give me pause, right?
, like not only am I a sales coach, I'm
still doing sales for my own business.
Like I walk the talk, I do the
outreach every day, so I'm not
rusty, I'm not out of practice.
I'm not selling something I don't know
how to do, and I shocked to report
this, but there are a lot of people
selling stuff they don't know how to do.
They know how to sell it.
They don't know how to do it.
Kirsten: I am gonna 100% ask you to come
back and I wanna specifically interview
you on bro marketing because you know what
I wanna talk about and I wanna talk Dish.
Natalie: bizarre, . And the only thing
more frustrating than the bros getting
rich is the women who let 'em do it.
And, and we show up small.
And when we just flounder
in self-doubt, Yep.
It, we, we leave the door open
for charlatans to gain market
share, and I'm just not about it.
Yeah, I'm not.
If you're listening to this right now
and you are a person with a real mission,
with a real method and real values, and
you know that your message needs to be
on stages, And you have not sharpened
that skill and you are not clicking the
button on rourke training.com to work
Houston, right now you're full of shit.
That's gonna be my
Kirsten: clip right there.
There you're full of shit.
Natalie: I'm gonna make this
'cause you don't actually want
what you say that you want.
If you want what you say
that you want, you will walk.
And when you look at these charlatans,
when you go on YouTube and you see these
people who obviously have no training,
no ethos, no mission, no messaging, no
value, I'm talking straight up trash,
and they are getting paid, and you
aren't because you convinced yourself
you're not good enough and you have
disqualified yourself by not even having
a conversation with a speaking coach.
I'm gonna call bss.
I'm not gonna say
Kirsten: anything after that.
How do people find
They can find email@example.com.
They can follow me on Instagram
at Unapologetic Wealth.
They can join the shenanigans.
I'm the only Natalie Bullen on Facebook.
Bulling is not a common name.
I'll give my u r l to our lovely hosts
here so she can put it in the show notes
in case you wanna follow the shenanigans.
Fair warning, I post between seven
and 10 times a day on Facebook, so.
Just saying it's a content blitz over
there, but it's good information.
Yeah, it's positive.
Oh, it's my fun.
That's my social outlet.
It's positive and it's fun.
It's like my Reddit, it's like
a non-anonymous Reddit thread.
That's how I feel about my Facebook.
I like it.
I start like good conversations and
then people just have threads on 'em.
It's, that's how I use Facebook.
Kirsten: And then people like me come
in and throw little bombs into the chat.
Natalie: it though.
I like it.
You know, listen, there are interesting
Reddit threads, possibly about some of
the bros that we will discuss next time.
I wanna do that.
Thank you so much for coming on, and I
love the fact that I asked you to come on
as my marketing mission and sales guru,
and you're like, Hey, buy Kirsten stuff.
Natalie: I'm like, thank you.
Thank you, but they should.
I mean, you can hire me if you want
to, but like I'm not a speaker coach.
I'm gonna be able to teach you
how to sell from the stage.
But that is an advanced skill.
You need the foundational skill
of being able to connect on stage.
You need the foundational skill of.
What exactly constitutes a keynote speech?
People like to jump to the money part.
People like to hire me and go,
Ooh, I wanna start making money.
Let me hire Nat Bullen.
But there are foundational things you
need to understand about the world and
the business of speaking before you
go trying to hire someone to help you
convert a room of people into buyers.
That is not where you start as a speaker.
When I started speaking, it wasn't to
convert people into high ticket offers.
It was to get them to see the value
in a budget and a credit card.
Yeah, it was a shifting of beliefs.
That's where you have to start.
Kirsten: so now I'm thinking that
there's a third time I wanna bring you
back, which is to talk about selling
from the stage because that is a very.
Natalie: Specific, it's a very
specific skill and it's not the step
one skill that people think it is.
And people are like, I'm
just gonna have this retreat.
I'm gonna have this mastermind.
I'm gonna have this big in-person event,
and I'm gonna convert 18% of the people
in the audience into this $12,000 thing.
And they've seen their coach
do it, so they think it's easy.
And I'm like, what you don't know is
that this person has been on 100 stages.
This person has read
50 books on persuasion.
This person has maximized their influence.
This person chose the color of the
room, the color of the curtains, the
color of the agenda, the color of
their suit, the color of their hair.
To entice you to purchase.
You don't know all the things that
happened behind the scenes, so
you think you're just gonna get
up there and say the right words.
Honey, the sale for a live event
happened on the registration page.
That is when the sale starts happening.
This event that I'm going to, that I
told you about in in November, trust me,
this woman's been selling from day one.
She's already priming us.
I'm gonna make you an offer
on day three of this thing.
, so people think, oh, I'm
just gonna hire Natalie.
And like, the money's gonna rain
out the sky now for a live event.
It's not, no, you need to, you
need a foundational skill of
speaking plus an event consultant.
Then you can start talking about
how am I gonna convert to people
once they actually arrive?
So yes, I would love to talk
about speaking from the stage
because I have strong opinions.
Kirsten: that's so funny
because you normally note,
have strong opinions at all.
You're, you're just so shy.
Natalie: I have strong opinions even
for me on the speaking from stage
because I just, I see it done wrong.
And I, I cringe at the
money that gets lost.
'cause if you're selling a $15,000 thing,
one mistake might have cost you 10 x 15 k.
Or five x 15 K.
And I think there's an unrealistic
expectation that people think, I am
just going to become an expert speaker.
I'm gonna do one or two talks, and
suddenly I'm gonna be in demand
and people are gonna pay me $15,000
plus travel fee plus a daily,
you know, honorarium and, and
I'm not saying no one is getting, that.
Most people are not getting 10,000, but
they've, they've also done their reps.
They've done their reps, but they
also are swimming in a different pond.
A lot of people swim in broke ponds and
then wanna ask for a big check if you are
trying to position yourself as the keynote
speaker of a free event for brand new
mompreneurs, well, they haven't brought
in any money 'cause it was a free event.
So how are they gonna pay
you $10,000 for the keynote?
Like, I'm not saying they couldn't,
but the likelihood is slim.
So yeah, the people who are
getting big bucks, they're also
going to big organizations.
They also have a big value proposition.
They also have a long list of case studies
and speaker reel and assets and et cetera.
And I just, I feel like, yes, next
time we meet, we'll talk through
like what are the basic things.
That people need to have to have a
shot in hell in making this work.
And like it's always about the
payment I paid to get on stage.
Recently, I made my money back by virtue
of being able to sell from the stage
and being able to grow my influence.
I also got a four K video of the talk,
which in and of itself is valuable.
So I was able to get video of me in
front of a crowd of a hundred people.
That alone was worth the trip.
So I think sometimes people
get fixated on, I'm not gonna
speak if I don't get paid, but
you're already speaking for free.
Every time you have a sales
call, you're speaking for free.
Every time you do a podcast,
you're speaking for free.
Every time you get your
children eat vegetables, free.
You're already doing the sales activity.
So why not leverage it?
And I, I think people confuse
leverage with payment.
That's not the only way
that you can leverage.
An asset, like a speaker reel.
And I'm gonna put the
Kirsten: pin in this.
We will have you back.
We will talk about multiple things.
We will cause some problems
because that's the fun.
That's what do, yeah.
Alright, everybody, please throw
into the various and assorted chats,
what you think, what your ideas
are, what your favorite, what your,
your favorite part of this was.
Because I have several favorites
and they were all when Natalie was
talking me up because I love that so.
I'm gonna talk to everybody later.
Thank you all for watching.
Thank you for listening.
Again, Natalie Bolen Unapologetic Wealth.
Go check it out and join the community.
Natalie: Bye everybody.
If you enjoyed this conversation with
a strong woman with strong opinions,
check out season one, episode number
nine, my interview with Kate Donovan
on why burnout is her superpower.
The link is in the show notes.